Comments on: Random stuff that comes out of my mouth when I’m drunk http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml You tell that other boy, not to touch the woodwork... Fri, 21 Nov 2008 05:49:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7-hemorrhage hourly 1 By: » Management hierarchy in Silicon Valley http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108383 » Management hierarchy in Silicon Valley Sun, 24 Jun 2007 07:52:37 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108383 [...] Terry Chay made an interesting point about Yahoo management. It appears the Yahoo techie has it bad. But the Yahoo engineer looks down on the Ebay manager. The Ebay manager only belittles the Ebay engineer, but that’s the end of the line. There is nothing lower than an Ebay engineer. I’m not talking talent. That’s just the way the world is. [...] [...] Terry Chay made an interesting point about Yahoo management. It appears the Yahoo techie has it bad. But the Yahoo engineer looks down on the Ebay manager. The Ebay manager only belittles the Ebay engineer, but that’s the end of the line. There is nothing lower than an Ebay engineer. I’m not talking talent. That’s just the way the world is. [...]

]]> By: Dave http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108326 Dave Sun, 24 Jun 2007 06:17:49 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108326 Ebay is a case, too. Ebay makes gobs of money. God bless them. Making money covers up all sorts of engineering and managerial problems. Internally, Google is a mess, but that does not matter. Here is an accurate hierarchy of who pecks whom in Silicon Valley. SBU chart. Engineers at X (1337) think engineers at Y are screwed/stupid/managed by n00bs. 1337 -> n00b Facebook -> Google -> LinkedIn -> Plaxo -> Yahoo -> Oracle -> EA -> HP -> AOL -> Ebay As you can see clearly by the chart, Facebook engineers are managed by superior beings. Yahoo is in the middle of the pack, only because there are much stranger places to work. Ebay (excluding Paypal) is unfortunately the butt of all jokes. Just say "train", and the Valley engineer will chuckle. Train you ask? A train contains a fixed number of seats. At some point, the eBay train will leave the station. Your train might leave at 3 am. You as an eBay engineer must stay up until 3 am to check in your working code to CVS. But the 2 am engineer already broke your libraries, so you must stay up until dawn to fix his problems. The train is so efficient that toolies must throw their body under the cogs of the Juggernaut to please the efficiency gods. Dave Ebay is a case, too. Ebay makes gobs of money. God bless them. Making money covers up all sorts of engineering and managerial problems. Internally, Google is a mess, but that does not matter. Here is an accurate hierarchy of who pecks whom in Silicon Valley.

SBU chart.
Engineers at X (1337) think engineers at Y are screwed/stupid/managed by n00bs.

1337 -> n00b
Facebook -> Google -> LinkedIn -> Plaxo -> Yahoo -> Oracle -> EA -> HP -> AOL -> Ebay

As you can see clearly by the chart, Facebook engineers are managed by superior beings. Yahoo is in the middle of the pack, only because there are much stranger places to work. Ebay (excluding Paypal) is unfortunately the butt of all jokes. Just say “train”, and the Valley engineer will chuckle. Train you ask?

A train contains a fixed number of seats. At some point, the eBay train will leave the station. Your train might leave at 3 am. You as an eBay engineer must stay up until 3 am to check in your working code to CVS. But the 2 am engineer already broke your libraries, so you must stay up until dawn to fix his problems. The train is so efficient that toolies must throw their body under the cogs of the Juggernaut to please the efficiency gods.

Dave

]]> By: tychay http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108110 tychay Sat, 23 Jun 2007 23:00:03 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108110 eBay? Well I've heard things… :-) eBay? Well I’ve heard things… :-)

]]> By: Michael http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108060 Michael Sat, 23 Jun 2007 21:02:19 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108060 Thanks for a good laugh Terry! As somebody who almost worked at Y!, I got a good taste of what an internal-clusterf--k (I felt peer pressure to censor that hee hee) they have going on in Sunnyvale. Hopefully I'll never get you started on my current employer, at least not while you're drunk. Thanks for a good laugh Terry! As somebody who almost worked at Y!, I got a good taste of what an internal-clusterf–k (I felt peer pressure to censor that hee hee) they have going on in Sunnyvale.

Hopefully I’ll never get you started on my current employer, at least not while you’re drunk.

]]> By: Rob... http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108017 Rob... Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:51:47 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108017 I have to admit that Yahoo!'s approach to its properties leaves me gob-smacked at the incompetence. I suppose it's possible that I just don't see their "big picture"... unlikely though! Regards, Rob... I have to admit that Yahoo!’s approach to its properties leaves me gob-smacked at the incompetence. I suppose it’s possible that I just don’t see their “big picture”… unlikely though!

Regards,

Rob…

]]> By: tychay http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108007 tychay Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:29:31 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108007 When I was at Plaxo, I knew a couple people who worked on Yahoo’s address book team. You think we’d be worried since Yahoo has the most users on the internet that maybe they could just build in Plaxo and crush us. We weren’t. The team couldn’t even get their own properties to use their product. For instance, use Yahoo 360 sometime. I use Plaxo to sync my entire address book with Yahoo and I can’t even import it into 360 to look for people who are already on 360. If you talk to Yahoo people about 360, it’s not clear even they know what it was supposed to be. How fucked up is that? When I was at Plaxo, I knew a couple people who worked on Yahoo’s address book team. You think we’d be worried since Yahoo has the most users on the internet that maybe they could just build in Plaxo and crush us.

We weren’t. The team couldn’t even get their own properties to use their product. For instance, use Yahoo 360 sometime. I use Plaxo to sync my entire address book with Yahoo and I can’t even import it into 360 to look for people who are already on 360.

If you talk to Yahoo people about 360, it’s not clear even they know what it was supposed to be.

How fucked up is that?

]]> By: tychay http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108003 tychay Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:20:12 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-108003 Rob, I could see that. In my defense, I was drunk and we’re in the Valley. And the Valley thinks the whole world actually cares what is going on here. In the unlikely event you actually care, here is some background: It’s a little about <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QRIHXE?tag=terrychay-20" rel="nofollow">The Search</a> space, a little about <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=yahoo+project+panama&btnG=Search" rel="nofollow">Project Panama</a>, and a little about <a href="http://valleywag.com/tech/lazy-valleywag/what-happened-to-that-peanut-butter-guy-230563.php" rel="nofollow">that peanut butter guy</a>. But its really about not holding people accountable for <a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.02/yahoo.html" rel="nofollow">their mistakes</a> (even after they <a href="http://valleywag.com/tech/acquisitions/yahoos-costly-caution-271502.php" rel="nofollow">make the same ones again</a>)…and a <a href="http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6141206.html" rel="nofollow">few</a> <a href="http://searchengineland.com/070530-170221.php" rel="nofollow">belated</a><a href="http://valleywag.com/tech/memorial-wall/terry-semel-2001+2007-270022.php" rel="nofollow">departures</a>, isn’t going to fix it. Not when everyone saw the train wreck over two years ago. Maybe out there, there is more than just programming that is <a href="http://terrychay.com/blog/article/simple-prescriptions-and-making-choices.shtml" rel="nofollow">about making choices</a>? I think at Yahoo it’s called “the Hollywood experiment” and it’s not really over yet. There is a systemic issue that allowed the “experiment” to flourish. But all we’re really doing is blaming the “Hollywood” part. Basically, I’m just stating the obvious. …in the most offensive way possible. Rob,

I could see that.

In my defense, I was drunk and we’re in the Valley. And the Valley thinks the whole world actually cares what is going on here. In the unlikely event you actually care, here is some background:

It’s a little about The Search space, a little about Project Panama, and a little about that peanut butter guy.

But its really about not holding people accountable for their mistakes (even after they make the same ones again)…and a few belateddepartures, isn’t going to fix it. Not when everyone saw the train wreck over two years ago.

Maybe out there, there is more than just programming that is about making choices?

I think at Yahoo it’s called “the Hollywood experiment” and it’s not really over yet. There is a systemic issue that allowed the “experiment” to flourish. But all we’re really doing is blaming the “Hollywood” part.

Basically, I’m just stating the obvious.

…in the most offensive way possible.

]]> By: Rob... http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-107788 Rob... Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:35:55 +0000 http://terrychay.com/blog/article/over-the-top-statement.shtml#comment-107788 That's good, cos I didn't understand a word! Regards, Rob... That’s good, cos I didn’t understand a word!

Regards,

Rob…

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